| 05:17 |
Vic |
Hi, I am sure this has been covered a million times, but I can't fnd the answer with a search |
| 05:17 |
Vic |
I cann;t login to the BE of my website |
| 05:17 |
Vic |
I used the install to create a new admin account and still cannot login |
| 05:18 |
Vic |
using 4.1.2 on 1&1 hosting |
| 05:18 |
Vic |
linux install |
| 11:14 |
Phlogi_ |
how do you do real extension development? I mean do you use an IDE? How do you debug? What tools do you use? |
| 12:15 |
umc |
hey guys... anyone knows where the pagination takes it's text "Page #" ? |
| 12:15 |
umc |
I want to get rid of that Page and I can't find it... |
| 12:20 |
Denyerec |
void are you there? |
| 13:21 |
Phlogi |
anyone answered my question about extension developing? I relogged in and missed the messages |
| 13:22 |
Phlogi |
How do you develeop extensions? In what IDE, how do you debug? |
| 13:22 |
umc |
even in notepad if you want :P |
| 13:22 |
umc |
get the kickstarter extension |
| 13:23 |
umc |
that will create a skeleton for your new extension |
| 13:23 |
umc |
there are tutorials that help |
| 13:23 |
umc |
then, it will save all the files and whatever you need, and you can start writing the code |
| 13:23 |
umc |
I use Eclipse as a programming environment... |
| 13:35 |
umc |
Phlogi: is that enough info to get you started ? :) |
| 13:43 |
nd |
Anyone knows of a more in-depth example/howto on FORM than the one in TSRef? |
| 15:01 |
chefan |
notepad? oO |
| 15:17 |
chefan |
Phlogi: you could use Xdebug server sided. for extension development some code editor with syntax check is enough |
| 15:17 |
chefan |
i prefer scite and vim, but bluefish isn't bad either |
| 15:17 |
Phlogi |
umc-away: thats not what I wanted to know... I did already extension developmend |
| 15:18 |
Phlogi |
chefan: maybe installing typo3 locally would be nice |
| 15:18 |
Phlogi |
I'm not using windows btw :D |
| 15:18 |
chefan |
there is an extension for unit testing as well, a typo3 adaption of phpUnit |
| 15:18 |
chefan |
lol |
| 15:19 |
chefan |
that's what the "notepad? oO" was for |
| 15:19 |
chefan |
i strongly reccomend a local installation if you want to debug |
| 15:20 |
Phlogi |
hehe ok |
| 15:20 |
chefan |
as soon as you are checking on the typo3 side on the process, grep in the source tree will be your friend :D |
| 15:20 |
Phlogi |
what about eclipse? |
| 15:20 |
Phlogi |
yes I'm using grep already :D |
| 15:21 |
Phlogi |
but its a bit painfull... |
| 15:21 |
Phlogi |
php debugging sucks |
| 15:21 |
chefan |
php eclipse is fine, but i consider it bloated for typo3 extension development |
| 15:21 |
Phlogi |
hehe ok |
| 15:21 |
chefan |
well, what did you expect? |
| 15:21 |
chefan |
php is a script language |
| 15:22 |
Phlogi |
hehe yes ok |
| 15:22 |
chefan |
by design it's not gods gift to debuggability |
| 15:22 |
chefan |
but as i said, xdebug is nice |
| 15:22 |
void |
pdt, i mean |
| 15:23 |
chefan |
pdt? |
| 15:24 |
void |
yes.. http://eclipse.org/pdt |
| 15:24 |
chefan |
ah, well that's probably what umc was referring to |
| 15:24 |
chefan |
the php branch is just a plugin for the eclipse ide |
| 15:25 |
chefan |
personally i think it's a waste of ressources to install a full fledged java IDE just to do php scripting |
| 15:26 |
void |
if your php scripts are very small - yes |
| 15:26 |
void |
but for extension with > 20 files |
| 15:26 |
void |
(php files) |
| 15:27 |
chefan |
what would be a nice project was to patch bouml or some UML toolkit to output neat Extension class frames |
| 15:28 |
chefan |
hmm, in that case i'd take another aproach and switch from the IDE selection to cvs selection |
| 15:29 |
chefan |
i am not sure if it really makes sense to develop such a big extension. following the architecture i would usually part it in a set of extensions |
| 15:29 |
void |
no |
| 15:30 |
chefan |
yes i would! sue me :D |
| 15:30 |
void |
look at cal or templavoila. |
| 15:30 |
chefan |
yes, and? |
| 15:31 |
void |
they contain a lot of php files |
| 15:31 |
chefan |
if i developed something like cal or templavoila, i would split it in more than one extension |
| 15:31 |
chefan |
with dependencies, obviously |
| 15:32 |
chefan |
but actually, extensions that big usually have the disadvantage that they want to be able to do everything in every context |
| 15:32 |
chefan |
i prefer modular software designs |
| 15:32 |
chefan |
it's a matter of taste actually, you can't just say no ;) |
| 15:32 |
chefan |
well, yes you can |
| 15:33 |
chefan |
you did, in fact |
| 15:33 |
void |
maybe. but then you will one more abstraction layer and a lot of extensions that anyway will depend on each other |
| 15:33 |
chefan |
the only thing you need is a concept |
| 15:34 |
chefan |
that's why i said an UML tool producing the code boilerplate would be fine |
| 15:35 |
chefan |
we are talking about development here, not php scripting |
| 15:35 |
chefan |
so that part of the design step should be included anyway |
| 15:36 |
chefan |
the typical usecase of typo3 hacking is more likely to consist of looking for an extension that almost does your trick, integrating it with whatever else you are about to do, and that's it |
| 15:37 |
chefan |
i mean, where is the sense in working with open source if you constantly reinvent the wheel? |
| 15:41 |
void |
i need a really custom extension. no one extension fit my needs |
| 15:41 |
void |
i can even don't use typo3 |
| 15:42 |
void |
because i don't use the power of it |
| 16:20 |
chefan |
no one does |
| 16:20 |
chefan |
typo3 is like an insurance |
| 16:21 |
chefan |
you use it, because there might be a time when you need the features |
| 16:30 |
void |
no. i am just too lazy to learn another framework |
| 16:32 |
chefan |
lol |
| 16:32 |
chefan |
well, there are frameworks with a less frightening learning curve |
| 16:33 |
chefan |
if you don't work in a team, any developer with a little bit of discipline doesn't need a framework anyway |
| 16:33 |
void |
yes, i am on the top of that curve. and looking at another mountains =) |
| 16:33 |
chefan |
after 2 years you have your own libs |
| 16:34 |
chefan |
you are at the top of that curve? |
| 16:34 |
chefan |
nice to know |
| 16:34 |
chefan |
question in that case |
| 16:34 |
chefan |
i need the two ideal hooks for content rewriting. |
| 16:35 |
chefan |
one for intercepting sent post data, one for rewriting forms displayed to the fe user |
| 16:35 |
chefan |
any recommendations? |
| 16:36 |
void |
not enough informain... are you about std. mail forms? |
| 16:36 |
chefan |
i am about whatever form |
| 16:37 |
chefan |
if i wanted limitations on the interoperability of my service, i wouldn't need the hook aproach |
| 16:37 |
chefan |
the idea is to have a service that hooks into any given information exchange with the frontend user |
| 16:38 |
chefan |
and it should work regardless of the plugins used |
| 16:38 |
void |
so you need most "global" hooks |
| 16:38 |
chefan |
about so |
| 16:39 |
chefan |
something i can be sure that is always used in the rendering process |
| 16:39 |
chefan |
the first one needs to offer access to the gp-data |
| 16:39 |
void |
so, you'd use TSFE hook (unless you use eID scripts) |
| 16:41 |
chefan |
at the moment i am looking at contentPostProc-output for the second one |
| 16:42 |
chefan |
one issue will be that the extension needs to work with a bit more rights than the fe-users |
| 16:42 |
void |
for the first i'd recommend initFEuser |
| 16:43 |
chefan |
i found one like tslib-fe-postproc |
| 16:43 |
chefan |
will check on both, thanks :) |
| 16:45 |
chefan |
how long did it take you to reach the top of that curve, btw? |
| 16:46 |
void |
for now, i work with typo3 for two years |
| 16:48 |
chefan |
let me guess, one year for the first 80%, the other for the details? |
| 16:50 |
void |
i think yes |
| 16:51 |
chefan |
i started with typo3 in december |
| 16:52 |
chefan |
generally i am quite happy with the progress |
| 16:53 |
chefan |
what i didn't like is that i think it's overly bloated for the platform used, but again i guess that's a matter of taste |
| 16:54 |
chefan |
for the size of the core, it's impressive how little features it offers "out of the box" |
| 16:54 |
chefan |
lacks some drastic simplification to my mind |
| 16:55 |
chefan |
maybe it couldn't be avoided, seeing the history of development. everything designed to allow everything tends to end up bloated |
| 16:56 |
chefan |
beauty in design comes from standards and restrictions, generally |
| 16:57 |
chefan |
for instance, a "we provide the interface for access control, but leave the management to extensions" would be more like my idea of usability |
| 16:57 |
void |
typo3 core come from php4 times.. it's outdated and don't follow modern pattern and technologies.. |
| 16:58 |
chefan |
in typo3, there is a half baked approach to access control, with optional methods to enhance that |
| 16:58 |
chefan |
but for instance as soon as you need roles, you're at the point where you discard the core approach and do your own thing |
| 16:59 |
chefan |
agreed |
| 16:59 |
chefan |
and it will never escape the script structure of php |
| 16:59 |
chefan |
i read about beer3 |
| 16:59 |
chefan |
an aproach to turn the core into an application server |
| 17:00 |
void |
chefan: what do you offer? pure java or .net? scripting is a good for web, i think |
| 17:00 |
chefan |
i considered that a scary example of megalomania |
| 17:00 |
chefan |
i shun java |
| 17:00 |
chefan |
not agile enough for my taste |
| 17:00 |
void |
so? RoR? |
| 17:01 |
chefan |
preference is zope |
| 17:01 |
chefan |
if it's about application serving |
| 17:01 |
chefan |
though i just started to enter into that |
| 17:01 |
void |
hehe.. i also use django nowdays =) |
| 17:01 |
void |
i like python |
| 17:02 |
chefan |
personally i think, python is THE language for open minded developers |
| 17:02 |
chefan |
needs a bit of discipline when deployed in distributed development |
| 17:03 |
chefan |
but well, which language doesn't? |
| 17:03 |
chefan |
java forces the discipline upon you, but doesn't make a difference if you work alone or in a team of 30 |
| 17:03 |
chefan |
and php does not offer the tools for that kind of discipline |
| 17:04 |
void |
never worked in large teams.. |
| 17:04 |
void |
cannot compare |
| 17:04 |
chefan |
well, defined interfaces make the difference |
| 17:04 |
chefan |
java throws up if you don't have them |
| 17:04 |
chefan |
in php you can always work around them |
| 17:05 |
void |
php have interfaces |
| 17:05 |
void |
python doesn't.. |
| 17:05 |
chefan |
in python you have the choice how much effort you put in process interoperability |
| 17:06 |
chefan |
hmm, we might have a misunderstanding in the use of the term interfaces here |
| 17:06 |
chefan |
sorry, i am not native to english |
| 17:06 |
void |
me too |
| 17:06 |
chefan |
so i might lack the proper term for what i mean |
| 17:07 |
void |
i guess you mean not "interface" as a language keyword... more like API, right? |
| 17:07 |
chefan |
exactly |
| 17:07 |
void |
so, i misunderstood you, sorry |
| 17:08 |
chefan |
modular deployment of libraries to user products |
| 17:08 |
chefan |
for instance, the decision to just offer pythonscript to user products |
| 17:08 |
chefan |
to protect the framework |
| 17:10 |
chefan |
php extensions always have the full power of the php installed |
| 17:10 |
chefan |
in python you have more options to limit that |
| 17:11 |
void |
how? can't i just make "import smth"? |
| 17:15 |
chefan |
as far as i understood, you could check on the includes and work without the standard library |
| 17:16 |
chefan |
the concept would be to strip the python script of the includes and take over control what funcionality you offer |
| 17:17 |
chefan |
that would technically be possible by using eval in php, but much more complicated and with a couple of restrictions |
| 19:40 |
dax77 |
hi @all :) |
| 19:43 |
chefan |
hi |
| 21:17 |
Sebi_ |
hi, can anybody help me with the direct mail extension? I've encountered some problems lately - the extension was running perfectly well before... |
| 21:24 |
sebi23 |
is there anybody who can help me? |
| 21:26 |
chefan |
any changes in the system or platform? |
| 21:26 |
chefan |
recently installed extensions? |
| 21:26 |
chefan |
when something stops running that worked before, there usually is a triger, a reason |
| 21:27 |
chefan |
might be updates, updates of dependencies, changes in platform configuration, whatever |
| 21:27 |
chefan |
but generally, things don't just stop working in computing |
| 21:28 |
sebi23 |
i made some changes in the template file for the newsletter layout |
| 21:29 |
sebi23 |
but i don't see any reason why it should stop working then |
| 21:30 |
chefan |
tried reverting to the old template ? |
| 21:31 |
sebi23 |
not yet |
| 21:32 |
chefan |
you should, if it's the last thing you did before things went haywire |
| 21:32 |
chefan |
if it works again with the old template, you narrowed down the problem |
| 21:34 |
sebi23 |
it doesn't |
| 21:34 |
sebi23 |
:( |
| 21:35 |
sebi23 |
the problem is, that i can create a new mail based on a page but i can't invoke the mailer engine |
| 21:36 |
chefan |
did your provideer change security policy? |
| 21:36 |
sebi23 |
i don't think so |
| 21:36 |
sebi23 |
it's a friend who owns the server |
| 21:37 |
sebi23 |
anyhow - it worked yesterday |
| 21:37 |
chefan |
root server? |
| 21:37 |
sebi23 |
yes - as far as i know |
| 21:37 |
chefan |
did you ask him if he updated something or changed something in the config? |
| 21:37 |
chefan |
that's one of the drawbacks of typo3 |
| 21:38 |
chefan |
it really does not run well in restrictive environments |