| 00:29 |
vstemen |
Does anybody here have experience with using PostgreSQL 8 with typo3 ?? I am just wonder how stable it is. |
| 00:30 |
vstemen |
It indicates it has not been extensively tested on the DBAL extension docs, but typo3 docs tend to be *way* out of date most of the time. |
| 00:34 |
vstemen |
On the extensions information page for dbal, under Dependencies, it says "Warning: Some of the extensions" and cuts off there. Some of the extensions what ?? |
| 02:56 |
ries |
vstemen: I had some experience... |
| 02:57 |
ries |
The new DBAL version will support it much better, but for now... it's not really stable |
| 02:58 |
ries |
theer is a shit load of crappy MySQL legacy in TYPO3, this is mainly the problem... |
| 02:58 |
vstemen |
hmm... Thats what I was concerned about. |
| 03:00 |
vstemen |
We just don't really trust mysql after this article from one of it's primary developers. |
| 03:00 |
vstemen |
http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2008/11/oops-we-did-it-again-mysql-51-released.html |
| 03:01 |
ries |
vstemen: well... we knew this already many years ago, right??? |
| 03:01 |
ries |
if you checkout DBAL from SVN... then you have a good success... |
| 03:01 |
ries |
when I tested that a couple of months ago I could install and run core typo3 without a hich |
| 03:02 |
ries |
I also have a experimental PDO drive for TYPO3... that worked quite nice, but lacks the capability to install extensions and run COMPARE in teh install tool |
| 03:02 |
ries |
when I have time...... one day... I might want to implement that.. |
| 03:02 |
vstemen |
Would I run into problems with extensions with DBAL from SVN? |
| 03:05 |
vstemen |
In other words, is the core the only thing I would be able to rely on being stable?? |
| 03:06 |
ries |
vstemen: that experience I don't really have.... |
| 03:06 |
ries |
If you ar serious about running TYPO3 on PG 8.3 or 8.4 (I asusme you would use 8.4) then expect some problems, but they are not mayor... |
| 03:07 |
ries |
Just make sure you set some patches aside for further updates... |
| 03:07 |
ries |
people do it... they also run Oracle... |
| 03:09 |
vstemen |
hmm.. Has mysql been stable enough to not run into problems with typo3 ? |
| 03:10 |
vstemen |
From what I read, I got the impression that most of the stability problems with mysql are with newer features. |
| 03:10 |
ries |
vstemen: TYPO3 uses pretty much standard SQL no fancy aggregates, sub-queries triggers or SP's |
| 03:10 |
ries |
don't expect to much problems in this area... |
| 03:10 |
ries |
Between you and me... and teh rest of teh channel and the world :) |
| 03:11 |
ries |
I always run the CMS over TYPO3 while I did put my business data in PostgreSQL |
| 03:11 |
vstemen |
:-) |
| 03:11 |
ries |
When the server crashed (happen 3 times.... MySQL crashed with table errors... PG could always recover without problems |
| 03:12 |
vstemen |
Is there a way to correct the mysql table errors in those cases ?? |
| 03:12 |
ries |
and the PG DB was way more buzy (around 600 connections running +10 queries/sec with a 50%50% updates to selects) |
| 03:13 |
ries |
vstemen: there is.... phpmyadmin is available in TYPO3 that allows you to repair tables aswell as command line tools to do the job |
| 03:13 |
ries |
with mysql you spend generally more time in maintenance then with PG... |
| 03:13 |
vstemen |
OK. thats at least some consolation |
| 03:14 |
vstemen |
I am currently also evaluating Drupal which allows me to use PostgreSQL |
| 03:15 |
vstemen |
Did you loose any data when you repaired your mysql tables ?? |
| 03:16 |
ries |
vstemen: Nope... |
| 03:16 |
ries |
I ususally just have downtime |
| 03:16 |
ries |
I am also more of a PG guy.... so may be that also helps :) |
| 03:16 |
ries |
I do hear good news from drupal... |
| 03:16 |
ries |
it's just that I don't know drupal at all... |
| 03:16 |
ries |
it depends a bit what your needs are |
| 03:17 |
ries |
cummunity site vs business oriented ite |
| 03:17 |
ries |
site |
| 03:17 |
vstemen |
I evaluated typo3 a couple years ago but could not get past the problems with the 5 year old obsolete documentation enough to get a site running. |
| 03:18 |
vstemen |
Other than that, I really like the power of typo3 |
| 03:19 |
vstemen |
Drupal seems to be easy and quick to get a site up and running with nice default templates, which is a plus. |
| 03:22 |
vstemen |
I am hoping there is enough new up to date documentation in the wiki now to get past that. When I played with it before, they were just discussing starting up the wiki for writing new docs. |
| 03:23 |
vstemen |
It is still discouraging though that they have the same over 5 year old getting started docs on the main typo3 site. |
| 03:23 |
ries |
vstemen: docs are still a bit old, not outdated though... |
| 03:23 |
ries |
for example TSRef is updated with each release |
| 03:23 |
ries |
It's only a pitty that docs don't clear what what version they apply to.... like what PostgreSQL does... |
| 03:24 |
ries |
clear show... |
| 03:24 |
ries |
some/most extensions are a bit outdated though... |
| 03:24 |
ries |
meaning, they are not updated... but still work with most/if not all typo3 4.2 releases |
| 03:25 |
ries |
I believe that TYPO3 has less security issues in core... |
| 03:26 |
ries |
My problem with most other CMS systems is there template system... |
| 03:26 |
ries |
it's always very hard to modify |
| 03:27 |
ries |
with TYPO3 and templavoila I can install a template in under 5 minutes if I push myself hard... |
| 03:27 |
vstemen |
hmm.. Yea, the problem I had was that I was constantly hitting a wall because every doc and video was wrong and didn't match what I was seeing in my installation (version 3.8.0) at the time. |
| 03:27 |
ries |
vstemen: that must have been.... 5 years ago?? |
| 03:27 |
vstemen |
Yea, I went though one of the tutorials on TV back then. It was pretty cool. |
| 03:28 |
ries |
I hardly watch any video's (I should... mlost video's of Kasper are really great |
| 03:28 |
vstemen |
hmm. according to my file dates, it was in 2005 |
| 03:29 |
vstemen |
The docs were out of date even then... Now I go to the main site and I see the same old getting started docs. |
| 03:29 |
vstemen |
Then they wonder why typo3 is not catching on more in America. |
| 03:30 |
vstemen |
I explained the problem back then on the mailing list. I think I was the one that spawned the new interest in starting the wiki docs. |
| 03:31 |
vstemen |
Because a big discussion about how to do it followed my doc complaints. |
| 03:32 |
ries |
vstemen: some people in the US tried to change that because the problem is known... |
| 03:32 |
ries |
it just didn't work out well due to various reasons... |
| 03:32 |
ries |
on the other hand.... tehse docs are hardly needed... |
| 03:32 |
ries |
I started with TV from teh start with TSref and google.... |
| 03:33 |
ries |
that was in 2004 |
| 03:34 |
vstemen |
Yea, Even now, I go to typo3.org > docs and click on "getting started" and it shows "doc_tut_quickstart - last update: 22.07.2004" |
| 03:34 |
vstemen |
That was 5 years ago. |
| 03:35 |
vstemen |
It appears they still are not putting priority on docs that will bring new users on board. |
| 03:36 |
ries |
vstemen: we know..... |
| 03:37 |
ries |
I know some local languages do have more up-to-date docs |
| 03:37 |
vstemen |
As much as I like the capabilities of T3, if the wiki ends up not having complete and up to date enough docs, I will end up sticking with drupal. |
| 03:37 |
ries |
and I know typo3-us (or some form of it.....) also released some newer docs |
| 03:37 |
ries |
a couple of months ago also somebody said to remove these docs because they are bad marketing |
| 03:38 |
vstemen |
I agree. they are. If they are completely wrong and out of date, people are not going to use it. |
| 03:38 |
ries |
One thing I also like about TYPO3 is the easy way to upgrade to newer versions.. |
| 03:39 |
vstemen |
I am not a green horn. I am a sys admin and programmer, yet it created a serious obstical even for me. |
| 03:40 |
vstemen |
they make it easy to upgrade ? That would be a plus. |
| 03:41 |
ries |
upgrade between minor releases can be done in under 5 minutes |
| 03:41 |
ries |
ususally extensions are compatible with 4.x.x |
| 03:41 |
ries |
so even a extension developed 4 years ago will just work... |
| 03:41 |
vstemen |
Thats good. |
| 03:41 |
ries |
this is very important in a business environment... |
| 03:41 |
ries |
We use TYPO3 within general motors aswell... |
| 03:42 |
vstemen |
One thing I would wonder, is if I go with mysql, will it be practical to transfer our data over to psgl once it is stable in T2. |
| 03:42 |
vstemen |
T3 |
| 03:42 |
ries |
I have done that when I was working on my PDO extension... |
| 03:43 |
ries |
as easy as press a button... |
| 03:43 |
vstemen |
What is the PDO extension? |
| 03:43 |
ries |
that said, make sure you install TYPO3 + MySQL with UTF-8 so TYPO3 and MySQL operates in UTF-8, your tabels needs to be utf8-general-ci (or something like that) |
| 03:44 |
ries |
vstemen: it was my system to run TYPO3 on PostgreSQL using PHP's PDO drivers |
| 03:44 |
vstemen |
Ah. OK. |
| 03:44 |
ries |
since I couldn't create tables... I simply copied data from MySQL... it was a proof of concept... |
| 03:44 |
ries |
TYPO3 would even run slighly faster :) |
| 03:44 |
vstemen |
Thats good Advice. |
| 03:45 |
vstemen |
I assume you were able to just dump the mysql db and read in into a new psgl db then typo3 worked with it ? |
| 03:46 |
vstemen |
That is interesting about the speed. I have often read that mysql is a little faster than postgresql. |
| 03:47 |
ries |
No, I basicly used the PDO driver to get table information and transfered the data straight from MYSQL to PostgreSQL |
| 03:47 |
ries |
a MySQL dump is hardy compatible with PG... and the mysql2pg conversion tools don't do a good job |
| 03:47 |
ries |
also I mad sure that the UTF-8 chain kept in place |
| 03:48 |
ries |
PG is faster... although my tests where limited.... |
| 03:48 |
ries |
But the MVCC architecture of PG is much more mature.... |
| 03:48 |
ries |
quite a bit of table can be updated in TYPO3 specially in community sort of site. |
| 03:48 |
ries |
then MVCC helps a lot |
| 03:49 |
ries |
in a plain website where the majority is selects then MySQL might be faster... |
| 03:49 |
ries |
my workload often also needs updates/inserts |
| 03:49 |
vstemen |
hm.. I see. |
| 03:52 |
ries |
if your website is more community, then I would for sure look at drupal.. |
| 03:52 |
ries |
if your website is more business oriented, show RSS feeds... multiple users update content, news etc.. |
| 03:53 |
ries |
custom templating on several pages,, then TYPO3 might be a better fit |
| 03:53 |
vstemen |
Well, we will probably be doing some community stuff as well as business and commerce sites. |
| 03:54 |
vstemen |
Yea, drupal does not seem to provide a way to have modified or different templates for sub-pages. It appears to be one them for the whole site so far as I can tell. |
| 03:55 |
vstemen |
Plus, I remember some of the features I really liked in typo3 like linking content into multiple pages and cut and past with the clip board, etc, that so far as I can tell, hardly any other cms does. |
| 03:56 |
ries |
yeaaa... that is what a lot of business people like.... |
| 03:58 |
vstemen |
Is your PDO extension in the repository? It does not show an extension under that name when I do a search. |
| 04:00 |
vstemen |
If a built in method is going to be available to transfer our mysql db to pg later, ounce it is stable, I would feel a lot better about using mysql for the time being. |
| 04:01 |
ries |
the PDO extension is not in the repro... although it worked, I didn't feel it should have been on TER because updates to teh DB didn't work when installing a extension... |
| 04:02 |
ries |
if you are go to put some work in by means of testing then PG is a solid aternative |
| 04:02 |
ries |
and yes, you can migrate MySQL to PG |
| 04:03 |
vstemen |
Well. I think I am going to go ahead and install it with mysql for starters and do a new evaluation then. |
| 04:04 |
vstemen |
Have you seen any time estimates of when pg might be considered stable for the public and officially supported by typo3? |
| 04:06 |
ries |
did you say 'officially????' :D |
| 04:07 |
ries |
I don't think there will be a official support for PG or Oracle or any other... |
| 04:07 |
ries |
DBAL of SVN is pretty stable, you might even want to try it... |
| 04:10 |
vstemen |
OK. If all else check out, then I probably will then. By officially, it would be nice if pg was offered as an initial option rather than having to setup mysql, install it with that, then install dbal, then switch over to postgresql. |
| 04:10 |
vstemen |
I waited until you re-connected to post :-) |
| 04:10 |
ries |
am I back? |
| 04:10 |
ries |
I am glad I am sitting behind my desk.. |
| 04:10 |
ries |
I have 3 sisters in my house, they are going to sleep over.. (I am married to one) |
| 04:11 |
ries |
and they all do some kinda arobic!!! |
| 04:11 |
ries |
you can install typo3 straight from PG with DBAL..... only with my PDO driver I wasn't to that stage yet... |
| 04:11 |
vstemen |
LoL! |
| 04:12 |
ries |
where you from? |
| 04:13 |
vstemen |
I am in oklahoma, USA |
| 04:13 |
vstemen |
Ah. I just found in the dbal extention docs how to install from scratch using dbal. |
| 04:14 |
vstemen |
Where are you? |
| 04:16 |
vstemen |
I was a bit concerned that if a lot of the extensions have not been update to use dbal, I may run into trouble later. |
| 04:17 |
ries |
vstemen: born and raised in Holland, now living in Ecuador |
| 04:17 |
ries |
Most, if not all extensions should work as long as they stick to general SQL/DBAL rules |
| 04:17 |
ries |
using the exec_xxxx functions to connect to the DB |
| 04:18 |
ries |
so no extension should use direct mysql calls... |
| 04:18 |
vstemen |
Ah. I have been working with another guy in Holland on another project :-) |
| 04:18 |
ries |
if it ain't dutch... it ain't much :D |
| 04:18 |
ries |
as what we say.... hehehehe |
| 04:18 |
vstemen |
:-) |
| 04:19 |
vstemen |
hmm. OK. guess that should not be much of a concern then. |
| 04:19 |
vstemen |
There is a link to download the extension on the website, is that by any chance from a SVN snapshot? |
| 04:19 |
vstemen |
Or is it the same one you get when installing it from within typo3? |
| 04:21 |
ries |
I would take the one from SVN.... |
| 04:22 |
ries |
the version from TYPO3 is out-dated... Xavier knows more about that |
| 04:23 |
vstemen |
Do you know where the instructions are for accessing their SVN repo? |
| 04:23 |
vstemen |
I don't see anything about it on the extensions page for dbal. |
| 04:24 |
ries |
Hmmmm gosh... |
| 04:24 |
ries |
I don't have that at hand |
| 04:25 |
ries |
vstemen: I ised to use : https://svn.typo3.org/TYPO3v4/Core |
| 04:26 |
ries |
But recently they moved DBAL to somewhere else, let me look it up |
| 04:26 |
ries |
tehy are going to move it to here I think : https://svn.typo3.org/TYPO3v4/Extensions/dbal/ |
| 04:27 |
ries |
last week there was a mail about this |
| 04:27 |
ries |
Hi all, |
| 04:27 |
ries |
as the DBAL should be kept as separate from the Core in the future, it |
| 04:27 |
ries |
has to be moved from the Core repository to the Extension repository. |
| 04:27 |
ries |
Therefore, we will transfer (read: copy) the history of DBAL on top of |
| 04:27 |
ries |
the Extension Repository. This is neccessary due to SVNs lack of |
| 04:27 |
ries |
tracking history over repository borders. |
| 04:27 |
ries |
As we need write access to the repository filesystem, we have to lock |
| 04:27 |
ries |
writing for everybody else for a short period of time. During this |
| 04:27 |
ries |
period, *nobody will be able to commit into the extension repository*. |
| 04:27 |
ries |
The process will take place on |
| 04:27 |
ries |
Tuesday, September 1st, between 10 and 11am CEST (GMT+2) |
| 04:27 |
ries |
We hope to get everything done in time, but I'll notify you as soon as |
| 04:27 |
ries |
we're finished. |
| 04:27 |
ries |
If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. |
| 04:27 |
ries |
Regards |
| 04:27 |
ries |
Andreas |
| 04:27 |
ries |
hehehe |
| 04:27 |
ries |
so, you might want to wait a couple of days |
| 04:28 |
ries |
then use DBAL from there on typo3 4.2.8 |
| 04:28 |
ries |
liek I said, I tried it without a problem... |
| 04:28 |
ries |
some patches are pending... |
| 04:28 |
ries |
they moved it to a extension to get releases to DBAL faster out |
| 04:29 |
vstemen |
Ah. OK. Thanks. I pasted all that info into my notes. |
| 04:32 |
vstemen |
ries, I am going to step out for a walk and stretch my legs. I really appreciate all the info. |
| 04:32 |
ries |
good |
| 04:33 |
ries |
I am going to sit with the ladies... |
| 04:33 |
ries |
night! |
| 04:33 |
vstemen |
OK. Good night then. |
| 10:35 |
Staffan |
found the bug yesterday :-) The really really annoying symlink problem in php5.2.n that is distributed with ubuntu |
| 11:12 |
fuchur |
mornin |
| 11:19 |
HardPhuck |
anyone using memcached with Typo3? |
| 11:28 |
fuchur |
good mornin :) |
| 14:01 |
dokma |
what are you guys doing working on sunday!? |
| 14:01 |
dokma |
you should be outside playing basketball! |
| 20:25 |
Jollyjumper |
hi @all, I'm a typo3 rookie and have a question. |
| 20:26 |
Jollyjumper |
How can i create a fix page section which has to be configurable in the backend but show the same content on every page? e.g. an advertisment or a news section. |
| 20:54 |
Jollyjumper |
Any help is really apprecidated. |
| 20:58 |
vstemen |
Jollyjumper, Sounds like it would be done the same way as something like a footer that goes on every page. If you wait long enough, one of these t3 gurus will probably come around and answer your question. I'm a complete newbe also. |
| 21:00 |
Jollyjumper |
yes a footer could be the same, but in my case the content should be changeable. |
| 21:03 |
vstemen |
I remember reading before that you can make a content element appear on multiple pages that you specify, but I don't know how to tell it to appear on all pages. Did you check the wiki? |
| 21:04 |
Jollyjumper |
which one :) |
| 21:05 |
Jollyjumper |
http://wiki.typo3.org/index.php/Main_Page |
| 21:05 |
Jollyjumper |
?? |
| 21:05 |
vstemen |
yes, that one. |
| 21:22 |
timdeluxe |
Jollyjumper: sounds like putting that into the page template and mapping your content to it by typoscript |
| 21:26 |
vstemen |
Oh yea. I forgot about being able to add anything to your pages in a typoscript template. My brain is slowly wrapping around that unique capability of typo3 :-) |
| 21:51 |
Jollyjumper |
where can i find more information how to do that? |
| 21:55 |
timdeluxe |
Jollyjumper: it depends extremly on the way you are templating and on what you want to insert |
| 21:55 |
Jollyjumper |
I've used TemplaVoilá |
| 21:59 |
fuchur |
wb Phlogi |
| 21:59 |
timdeluxe |
then you could write the right typoscript and map it to some lib.xxx or temp.xxx element and map that in templavoila |
| 22:00 |
timdeluxe |
here is a freely googled example for tt_news: http://klauskjeldsen.dk/2007/04/02/typo3-add-tt_news-latest-as-typoscript-object/ |
| 22:00 |
timdeluxe |
everything without warranty ;) |
| 22:09 |
Jollyjumper |
thanks a million |
| 22:23 |
vstemen |
OK. I have gone through the install tool and confured everything. There were settings for the DB password and the install tool password. But no mention of the Backend admin login and password. |
| 22:23 |
vstemen |
So in the end, when I click on "Backend admin in new window." , what are the defaults for username and password ?? |
| 22:26 |
vstemen |
I dont see any setting for it in typo3conf/localconf.php |
| 22:30 |
vstemen |
Ah. found it in one of the other installation docs on the wiki finally. "admin" and "password". |
| 22:33 |
vstemen |
That would be a good thing for the install to tell you. Unless I am overlooking it, but I don't see it anywhere. |
| 23:39 |
timdeluxe |
vstemen: it is written after you completed the database import ;) |
| 23:39 |
timdeluxe |
directly below the link |
| 23:41 |
vstemen |
timdeluxe, Ah. I must have overlooked it when I went on to the configuration page. OK. Thanks. |
| 23:41 |
timdeluxe |
no problem |
